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Posts: 132
Location: Canada
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Got some good answers in my other thread about nutrition strategies so I figured I'd ask another question that's been on the back of my mind:
I've been looking at stocking up on a few spares from UK mail-order stores (as they're way less expensive than over here) ahead of the upcoming season. In looking at their offerings, however, it got me to thinking about whether it would be worth picking up some race-specific tires as well? I've always just used my normal training tires for everything, but I'm intrigued by the idea at this point ;)
On the upside they are lighter, provide better ride quality and lower rolling resistance. They are also a pretty small investment relative to other things you can do to a bike. As such, on the surface they seem like a good idea.
On the downside, however, they violate the fundamental rule of using something new on race day. Further, getting a flat during the race is a much bigger deal than it is on a training ride so their increased fragility is a potential concern. With that said, that may be partially offset by the fact that I'd be running a fresh set versus one with lots of miles on them.
So, the question is whether the performance improvements they provide are large enough to offset the downsides? Naturally, that will be a somewhat subjective balance but I'm interested to get some experiences from people who have played around with them. Further, do people usually switch them out right before the race or do you typically do a few training rides on them first to make sure there are no problems?
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Posts: 298
Location: Canada
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Last year I swapped the tires my Cannondale came with for Michellin pro 3 race tires, and to me the bike felt completely different after that. The ride was so much more enjoyable that I haven't used anything else since. I would describe the bike as more responsive, the new tires are probably less than half the weight of the OEM rubbers. They were also great in the wet during my sprint tris in Milton and Toronto islands. They don't offer as much puncture protection but I've learned to trust them.
The way I justified running those tires last season for both training and racing (actually, the same exact pair) is that the price is just that low that it wont hurt to replace them if disaster strikes (two weeks ago I spotted a pair of the Michellin pro 3 for $60 CAD on probikekit, they go on sale there all the time.) I also only had one set of wheels at the time. BUT, in retrospect, running those tires for BOTH training and racing was really risky, if you do decide to have them do double duty like in my case, make sure you keep an eye on wear, and you must inspect them daily.
I personally wouldn't run a fresh pair of tires on race day, I would take them out on the race wheels a couple of times before just to put some mileage on them, make sure there are no issues and that they are seated properly on the rim. In fact, I will be doing this before my first sprint tri of the year, I just got a new set of carbon clinchers for racing and they will be covered in a new pair of Michellins. I also make it a habit to inspect my wheels and rubber after every ride.
I think you only have the one set of wheels correct? The sensible me would say: Buy the race tires, mount them and get a feel for the ride. Then take them off for training, leave them off until the week of the race and maybe ride them a few times that week to ensure they are 100%
PS: If it makes a difference, I'm using butyl tubes
It's almost 2am, so I hope I'm making sense.
"Triathlon is just the equation that allows us to reap the passion of life in proportion to the work we put in" - Mitch Thrower
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Posts: 132
Location: Canada
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KarmaComa wrote:I think you only have the one set of wheels correct? The sensible me would say: Buy the race tires, mount them and get a feel for the ride. Then take them off for training, leave them off until the week of the race and maybe ride them a few times that week to ensure they are 100% Yup, only one set of wheels so far. A proper set of aero race wheels is on my list of things to get, but given their price they're going to have to wait for the time being. Either way, looks like a reasonable plan and makes a lot of sense. I've been relatively lucky with tires so far, even though the ones that I use aren't the toughest (Vittoria Rubino Pro). I've lost a couple of rear tires to unavoidable glass bits, but fortunately I managed to ride my original front tire until it wore down to the kevlar (with 13,000+km on it). Hopefully that luck continues if I do end up going with the race tires. Was looking primarily at the Vittoria Open Corsa line as I've liked their tires in the past, but I'll take a look at those Michellins as well. With that said, I have no plans to move away from the Rubinos for training as I don't want to push my luck - if I do go for race tires, they'll be just that. I still inspect them after each ride to clean out any debris that gets lodged into them and I don't want to mess with what works. PS Thanks for your heads up about PBK a while ago, as that's the main reason I'm considering it right now. Their prices on the high-end Open Corsa tires is lower than what I've paid for my Rubinos locally :OP
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Posts: 298
Location: Canada
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tms wrote:
Yup, only one set of wheels so far. A proper set of aero race wheels is on my list of things to get, but given their price they're going to have to wait for the time being. Either way, looks like a reasonable plan and makes a lot of sense.
Keep an eye on these guys, we're expecting good things at a great price (ridiculously cheaper than the big names) and the engineering looks solid http://www.flocycling.com/ they're going to have an alloy breaking edge, so you wont need special pads. Keep 'em in mind. tms wrote:
I've been relatively lucky with tires so far, even though the ones that I use aren't the toughest (Vittoria Rubino Pro). I've lost a couple of rear tires to unavoidable glass bits, but fortunately I managed to ride my original front tire until it wore down to the kevlar (with 13,000+km on it). Hopefully that luck continues if I do end up going with the race tires. Was looking primarily at the Vittoria Open Corsa line as I've liked their tires in the past, but I'll take a look at those Michellins as well.
With that said, I have no plans to move away from the Rubinos for training as I don't want to push my luck - if I do go for race tires, they'll be just that. I still inspect them after each ride to clean out any debris that gets lodged into them and I don't want to mess with what works.
Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX are reviewed really well, if you like the Vittoria's then look no further, they are a little more expensive than the Michellins but I have a good feeling they are more puncture resistant. I may give the Vittorias a shot later in the season if they go on sale at PBK. tms wrote:
PS Thanks for your heads up about PBK a while ago, as that's the main reason I'm considering it right now. Their prices on the high-end Open Corsa tires is lower than what I've paid for my Rubinos locally :OP
Indeed, I've spotted my tires locally for $80 each!
"Triathlon is just the equation that allows us to reap the passion of life in proportion to the work we put in" - Mitch Thrower
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Posts: 134
Location: Virginia, USA
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I run the same set of tires for training and racing. I just buy good quality tires and keep them on at all times until they wear out. I can't see the reason to have low-end tires for training. When I used to do a lot of mountain bike racing, we would change tires depending on the conditions of the course (muddy, dry, whatever), but for road riding, it doesn't make that much of a difference. That's my $0.02.
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Posts: 132
Location: Canada
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KarmaComa wrote:Keep an eye on these guys, we're expecting good things at a great price (ridiculously cheaper than the big names) and the engineering looks solid http://www.flocycling.com/ they're going to have an alloy breaking edge, so you wont need special pads. Keep 'em in mind. Thanks for the heads up - will keep an eye on them. I've always had a soft spot for engineering-centric startups like them (especially in a marketing driven niche like cycling), so they'd be right down my alley. Quote:Vittoria Open Corsa Evo CX are reviewed really well, if you like the Vittoria's then look no further, they are a little more expensive than the Michellins but I have a good feeling they are more puncture resistant. I may give the Vittorias a shot later in the season if they go on sale at PBK. The Vittorias just came with my bike and have worked well so I never really strayed outside of the make before ;) The Open Corsas are comparatively on the pricey side, but everything on that site seems cheap compared to what I'm used to :OP PS Anyone know why cycling stuff is so much cheaper in the UK? Almost everything else seems to go the exact opposite way.
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Posts: 132
Location: Canada
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dw152 wrote:I run the same set of tires for training and racing. I just buy good quality tires and keep them on at all times until they wear out. I can't see the reason to have low-end tires for training. When I used to do a lot of mountain bike racing, we would change tires depending on the conditions of the course (muddy, dry, whatever), but for road riding, it doesn't make that much of a difference. That's my $0.02. Hmm, it's not so much that I'm worried about the expense of the race tires but their longevity. My understanding was that a lot of the race-specific tires used much softer compounds that provide better grip but don't have much in the way of longevity. Training tires supposedly use harder compounds and have extra protection layers that are absent in the race tires. With that said, I've never actually used race tires before so I'm not entirely sure how fragile they are? I assumed they were similar to the race compounds used in motorsport versus normal street tires but perhaps the difference isn't that dramatic?
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Posts: 4,379
Location: United Kingdom
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Quote:I personally wouldn't run a fresh pair of tires on race day, I would take them out on the race wheels a couple of times before just to put some mileage on them, make sure there are no issues and that they are seated properly on the rim. For a main race - one I'm racing not just training during - this is exactly what I do - switch to new tires in the week or two before the race. My reason for this is not so much performance as avoiding problems - in IM France I rode on a set of tires that were maybe 1000 miles old and had been reliable performers - at about 70 miles in, the front tire punctured during a descent and I had a very scary off road trip that I've still no idea how I survived. I wish i'd changed to new tires before that race! Having said that, if you are switching the week before the race, then you may as well switch to something fast ;) For Switzerland I switched to really new lightweight Ultremo R tires - they definitely made a good difference - but at the time there was also a risk of this - http://www.roadcyclinguk.com/gear-news/schwalbe-ultremo-r-defect-notice/4068.html - so switching a week or two before helped me avoid finding out about that during the race.
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Posts: 4,379
Location: United Kingdom
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Quote:With that said, I've never actually used race tires before so I'm not entirely sure how fragile they are? I assumed they were similar to the race compounds used in motorsport versus normal street tires but perhaps the difference isn't that dramatic? I've only used two types of tires: - tires marketed as puncture resistant like 4000GP-S, Armadillo, etc - really lightweight tires like the Ultremo's The difference in longevity for me was huge - the Ultremo's lasted less than a thousand miles, the 4000's generally last around 2000 (or more). However.... Shiraz seems to get both more out of both types of tires. Not sure why? Weight? Cornering style? Does she avoid bad roads more than me somehow? No idea!
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Posts: 52
Location: United Kingdom
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I also use the Michelin Pro race 3 tyre for my race bike. I use this for training and races and use something more durable in the winter on a different bike now. They came highly recommended from people I work with and now the group who ride after work all use them. Great puncture resistance so far... and they come in cool colours. I have the normal version I think but there is a lighter version which I assume is thinner and may not be such a good all rounder.
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Posts: 859
Location: United Kingdom
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tms I use Rubino pros on my training wheels, and Corsa Evos on my race wheels. I wouldn't use them change to them just before the race, they can be very tight to get on, so if you did flat during the race it may take a long time to get them back on! Ideally you want to fit them a few weeks before and keep them pumped up hard, this will stretch them a bit and help with removal if you need to. Obviously you can only really do this if you have a spare set of wheels. Ideally I want to get about 100 miles on a pair of tyres before I use them in a race, just to get a bit of wear on them, and make sure they've bedded in ok. This is the cheapest I've found them... http://www.highonbikes.com/wheels-tyres/tyres-road/vittoria-open-corsa-evo-cx-320tpi-road-bike-tyre.html
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